• Compatibility: ProLiant DL160 G8 DL360 G8 DL360E G8 DL360P G8 DL360p Gen8, ProLiant DL380p Gen8, ProLiant ML350p Gen8. It will complain that "A disk has been moved" but the order is written on the disk - it doesn't depend on the disk slot you use. Note: Customers and HPE Partners: login using an HPE Passport account associated with your company email address. فرم فاکتور تک. The working Gen8 was running 7. HP Proliant DL360 G6 Wont Detect SSD. 2022 works fine on Gen9, this is all I needed for a ML350 Gen9. I installed it on a DL360p G8 last night without any problems. Then, it is time for you to replace its fan with a genuine, branded, and effective one for HP ProLiant DL360P G8 and DL360e G8 servers. The highest of the HP ProLiant DL380p's five scores was. 22 votes, 18 comments. NOTE: HP ProLiant DL servers no longer ship standard with a 12-foot NEMA 5-15P to C13 power cord that connects to 110V US wall outlets in a home or office. I see the ml series specs here and dl series specs here. HPE ProLiant DL servers range from about $550 to about $1600 for various models of the DL20 and DL180, and for DL360 and DL380 servers from about $1600 to. HP ProLiant DL360 G7Server. HPE Servers Support & Certification Matrices. Proliant DL360p G8 Overview. P has twice memory slots, supports better processors (2600 Vs the 2400 on e), has an integrated raid p420i instead of a p120 (fake raid). HPE Hardware. The HP ProLiant DL380p Gen8 achieved a 15% lower performance to power ratio overall than in the Dell PowerEdge R720 in the tested configuration. Procedure:. Dell Hardware HPE Hardware VMware. HP ProLiant. Upto 2% Discount on Checkout . They will be operating at the full speed of 6Gb/s in both SAS and SATA mode. Form Factor: 2U Rack Server. Chipset: Intel C600. Click on the controller, click on configure, click on configure controller. It's health led goes red and at SID over temp led goes yellow, and fans make a lot of noise, when I restarted the server. If you purchase the high performance configuration you get iLO Advanced and HP Insight. And should I blindly go for the newer Gen9 or does that totally depend on the price? I can get the Gen9 for about 400 euro and the Gen8 for about 200 euro which is half!The 380 Gen 8 has significantly more memory, 128GB! but has a price tag just short. 759212-B21. pimiento. 0 TB 2 with an increase in performance of up to 82% 3. HPE® Apollo® Gen10 System. ProLiant DL360 Gen 10 77TB Performance Server for Cohesity DataPlatform : 01 / 31 / 2028 : ProLiant DL360 Gen 10 32TB Performance Server for Cohesity DataPlatform. Hard drives are 3. Latest iLO for both is 2. Note: Customers and HPE Partners: login using an HPE Passport account associated with your company email address. Enterprise enhanced design for all workloads with versatility for future requirements. any suggestions? TIA. The and the HP server is about 100 euro's cheaper than the Dell server. HP ProLiant DL360p Gen8 ( 128 GB RAM ,Intel Xeon E5-2650V2 ) Which one is good with Microsoft Hyper V 2012 ,kindly suggest !! Spice (3) Reply (5) flag Report. And should I blindly go for the newer Gen9 or does that totally depend on the. In my risers, there is only one of these slots available and it sits along the top edge. 9 - UEK release 6 update 2 (5. Your temperature reading at sensor 30 is not abnormal: # hplog -t ID TYPE LOCATION STATUS CURRENT THRESHOLD 1 Basic Sensor Ambient Normal 71F/ 22C 105F/ 41C 2 Basic Sensor CPU (1) Normal 104F/ 40C. Learn more at the Official Hewlett Packard Enterprise Website. The HP DL380p G8 can support multiple GPUs with the proper PCI riser. NOTE: All HPE ProLiant Generation 8 (Gen8 or G8) server models use HPE supplied and certified memory components that are ROHS-compliant. Chassis: 2U rack. Description. DL380 G8 - 1050$ + Has to be shipped cross country. 4 Steps to Configure & Buy an HPE DL380 Gen10 Server. Well, after all that research I mentioned at the beginning of the post, I installed an IOCREST IO-PEX40152 inside of an HPE Proliant DL360p Gen8 to add NVMe capabilities to the server. Find out how to enhance the performance, security, and management of your servers with HPE iLO. 5" inch 651687-001 651699-001 Hard Drive Tray Caddy Compatible with HP G8 G9 DL120 DL160 DL180 DL360 DL380 DL320e DL360p DL380p DL388 DL560 DL385 Server HDD Chips Screws (2-Pack) 4. . HPE iLO RESTful API – Logical Drive Status Shows Warning. HP Proliant DL360 G8 & G9 with SAMSUNG PM863a SSDs. Processor: Intel Xeon E5-2600 Family. Industry leading performance, efficiency, capacity and reliability. DL360p Gen8, DL360p Gen8 CMS, DL360p Gen8 Special Server, DL380 Gen10, DL380 Gen10 Base, DL380 Gen10 Entry, DL380. The Hyper-V role also installed without any issues and works. The positive note is that if the server bites it, you can move all the drives and put them into another dl. Business, Economics, and Finance. Late to the party, but I found it present in the DL380 Gen9 BIOS under service options - i. Remove all power supplies. That means that the G9 also uses DDR4, unlike the G8 which uses DDR3. I know it might not be the best choice for FreeNAS, especially with the integrated P410i controller (and it's not the newest hardware either. 6GHz CPUs + 64GB PC4-2133P RAM + 8×600GB 10K SAS SFF HDD, P440ar RAID, 4×GigaBit NIC, 2×Power Supplies, NO OS (Renewed). 1. I had the same issue, but for the DL380 G8 SSF From my experience, they are different versions, some of friction rails, some are ball-bearing rails and the the ball-bearing rails with cable management arm. The SATA interface versions of the same drives will be about $50 less per disk. The new ProLiant DL380p Gen8 is capable of taking on a wide range of roles in the datacentre as it has versatility as its middle name. Because the iLO is responsible for POST and setting fan speed, we next looked at that. HPE 600GB 12G SAS 15 K rpm SFF (2. Dell PowerEdge 14G Servers vs. 2ghz 10 core. ProLiant DL servers are primarily connected to power distribution units (PDUs) in data center racks and now ship standard with a PDU 6-foot. 5" hard drives. Our goals for a new server: 1) Should be faster than the old one. As a business owner, you’re looking for servers that are small but mighty — and both Dell PowerEdge R630 and HP ProLiant DL360 Gen9 fit that bill. For the UEFI or UEFI optimized boot mode options, the boot mode choice is based on the expected OS and required boot features for the server hardware. 0. Official VMware support for 2019 starts at 6. Which should I choose? Thanks for your advice. Chassis: 2U rack. I know the server has this "sea of sensors" and it manages the fan speeds according to them. The process – Installing ESXi 7. Decrease Quantity of HPE 712383-081 16GB 1866MHz 240Pin ECC CL-13 Reg DDR3 Memory for G8 Increase Quantity of HPE 712383-081 16GB 1866MHz 240Pin ECC CL-13 Reg DDR3 Memory for G8. S. HP DL360 Gen8 - BIOS and Firmware Solved Does anyone know where I might be able to find the latest BIOS and HD Controller Firmware for a DL360 Gen8?? My fans are running at 46% and I'm hoping an update will fix that. HPE DL380 G10 vs. Depending on the spec you choose, the Gen10 is usually slightly more expensive, but not by much considering the benefits shown in the list. Jan 6th, 2019 at 4:56 AM. 0 TB. 2ghz 10 core. Share. Customers from Global One Technology. Huawei and Lenovo tied for the fifth position in. I'm leaning towards a Dell PowerEdge R720, I like Dell hardware and their after market/EOL support is fantastic. 1. dzavoronok has the best suggestion if you want it internal. Category: Refurbished. 17-2102. HPE ProLiant DL360p Gen8 Server Maintenance and Service Guide. 1. 212, Commercial Computer Software, Computer Software Documentation, and Technical Data for Commercial Items are licensed to the U. 2. Unknown noise levels. Things like that. b) Top cover assembly - Includes DL360p SE Gen8 Label - For use with DL360p SE Gen8 Ivy Bridge (IVB) 743499-001. My G8 was around 45 watts with bare bones. 7 U3 now and scared to pull the trigger on the update. but those processors are 95 watt TDP so expect a little more around 200 watts peak. Ensure that you are using the correct AHCI or RAID system drivers for your SATA option. 0 on my HPE Proliant Gen8 servers, by performing the following steps. These are great questions and they lie at the heart of the problem. I have a new HP Proliant DL360e G8 and it is not detecting the hard drives. Better PCI-E expansion (all in theory from reading quick blurb). 0 KB x 8: 32. The newer Xeon v3/v4 CPUs also have AVX2 support compared to AVX support, which may have an impact on your workload, but that really depends what you're doing. 5” hard drives or twenty-five hard drives. Hi: HP split into two companies back in 2014. The DL360 has grown in popularity and is now one of the best-selling servers . My question is about performance of G7 and G8 because I have no. e. $319. 5. در آینده دارند از سری بسیار پرفروش DL و BL در نسلهای مختلف مثل DL380 G8 ، DL380 G9 و DL380 G10 استفاده میشود. Showing. The latest SPP for G8 was SPP8. The iLO is an embedded computer system. $359. That said, make sure your write cache is set to 100% write, that improves the results noticeably. I will probably get G8 toward the end of the year for a desktop. Two-socket PowerEdge R servers range from $1060 to $2370, and higher end four-socket servers range from about $16,000 to just under $17800. CPU zone and the onboard RAID and PCIe sockets. The DL360 has grown in popularity and is now one of the best-selling servers . ; See the Contents of the HPE supplied VMware ESXi images for the list of components in the HPE custom ESXi image. 05. Other models include the DL370 G6 the #1 2P server in VMware benchmarks , the ML370 G6, ML350 G6, ML150 G6, Dl160 G6 and. Enabling or disabling SR-IOV. Government under vendor's standard commercial license. Reboot the server and press F8 during POST for the iLO RBSU. HP DL380 Gen8 doesn't turn on. In most cases your relationship with the vendor will be the more important factor. Learn how to update the firmware of HPE ProLiant Gen8 and Gen9 servers using the HPE iLO 4 or iLO 5 web interface. RAID Controller: HP Smart Array P420i. The HP ProLiant DL360p Gen8 Server comes with industry leading performance, efficiency, capacity, and reliability in a 1U space. So lets start and see step by step RAID creation in HP DL380 G8 server. Buy HP ProLiant DL360P G8 Server 2. CPU: 2 x 2GHz Xeon E5-2650. Not a good one, but it works. 3 Months Warranty on Other Parts. (You’ll notice that due to their better efficiency, HPE G9 servers generated much less heat output as well). In this video we take a quick look at the old g7 layout compaired to the new g8 layout. Ensure that you are using the correct AHCI or RAID system drivers for your SATA option. 0 x16 slot may be required. 8GHz, 80W) Processor Option Kit. มาดูด้านหลังกัน. Hot Network Questions Is it necessary to acknowledge a finished project? Can I, a British Green Card holder residing in western NY, go to pick up my British mother flying into Toronto airport and bring her. Mount NFS or iSCSI datastore. Download the “HPE Custom Addon for ESXi 7. Power usage according to ILO is 168 watts average, peak was 195 watts. d_rodin • 4 yr. the more difficult thing will be heat. If the iLO is truly dead, then a part of your system board is damaged. HPE Ethernet 10Gb 2-port SFP+ 57810S Adapter. HPE ProLiant Gen 10. The HP DL380G9 and the Dell R630. I am running two VM's with passthrough's for the video and USB, (Windows 10 and Mac OS Catalina), so I need to be able to add two video cards and two USB. 5-inch disks. 05. Protect your infrastructure, workloads, and data with our newest HPE ProLiant Gen11 servers or with our full portfolio of both rack and tower servers. Find user guides, technical specifications, firmware updates, and more in this comprehensive support document. 0. space - Mostly Mini PC's now • 6 yr. Resolving DL380 G8 fan noise mod - finally! With big thanks to u/Vexamus; who a little while ago said to simply bridge pins 4-5-6 on the fan header and that should fool the HP server into believing the fans are still there and working. This is from a healthy running G6. From the System Utilities screen, select System Configuration > BIOS/Platform Configuration (RBSU) > System Default Options > Restore Default Manufacturing Settings and press Enter. 6TB of storage in a small, 1U chassis makes this server the perfect solution for space constrained businesses. Improve this answer. Procedure. 5U1 and will be direct connected (no iSCSI switch). 5U, disk & memory capacity. The DL360 G6 and DL380 G6 are both now capable of supporting up to 144GB of memory and the new architecture enables customers to optimise the memory configuration for a number of different scenarios. The silicon root of trust anchors the server firmware to an HPE-exclusive ASIC, creating a fingerprint for the Intel® Xeon. I think my options are 1) find a way to get the . I was able to install ESXi 7. Servidor HPE ProLiant DL360 Gen10 4208 2. It's a 2U rack mount server that ships with a small-form-factor ball bearing rail kit. Power Efficiency Comparison of the Dell PowerEdge R720 and HP ProLiant DL380p Gen8 Rack Servers 5 Apples-to-apples configuration The two systems were configured as similarly as possible, with similar hard drive, memory, and power supplyRAM is 128GB DDR3-1600 and storage is comprised of eight 300GB 6G SAS 10K rpm SFF 2. The server won't be standing in a place where people sit, but in a rack on the other side of the. Aside from that, while there isn't that much space to work with, @richard. Disable HP Smart Path in Smart Storage Administrator Select an available device from the Home screen, and then click Configure under the available options. For 2nd hand market HP is the most available, with supermicro/huawei/cisco is 2-4 by who gets dumped most of atm. The Login and Password. Featuring 32GB of memory capacity and 9. If you are confused between HPE Proliant DL360 Gen10 or HPE Proliant DL380 Gen10, you can also check if the software has customizable modules for your industry. 5" hard drives or sixteen 2. Originally, I had 2 risers installed - each with 3x slots as shown here: Depending on the GPU, a PCIe 3. ago. The 714511-001 is compatible with the following 1U SFF Servers: HPE ProLiant DL160 Gen9. Get the system health light flashing fast red and the power button amber. Most things that say. 5GHz 12 Core – 96GB DDR4. For completeness - I'm running DL360 G8s. I manage four DL380 G9, with 256gb ram each and only two drives. 0 will work, just watch out for where you are installing it. Agreed, the controller will know which disk is which, putting them back in any order shouldn't matter. HPE dl360p gen8 server CPU upgrade. The ProLiant DL360 Gen9's internal RAID10 volume is able to sustain 1,678,541KB/s for read operations and 637,581KB/s for write operations. 211 and 12. The new HPE ProLiant Gen11 servers provide organizations with intuitive, trusted, and optimized compute resources, ideally suited for. 0 x8 x8 Low profile slot Activated when installed with processor 1. Just make sure there is room for the card with a 1U DL360 vs the 2U DL380. RNR1995-2. FlexLOM has a 530FLR SFP+ card installed instead of the standard 4x 1GB. iLO 3 Firmware Update (HP Proliant DL380 G7) 1. It's a. G6->G7 - Higher memory support. The fans spin just enough to move some air over the CPUs and RAM. The Gen8 Service Pack for ProLiant (SPP) is a comprehensive systems software and firmware update solution, which is delivered as a single ISO image. So I went back to HPE-ESXi-6. DL380 Gen10 Plus: 3rd Generation Intel® Xeon® Scalable Processors: Oracle Linux 7. 7. What are the best TOP 15 Dl360 Vs Dl380 G8 products in 2022? Kingsley Editor's Team analyzed 4,384 TOP 15 Dl360 Vs Dl380 G8 reviews to do the research for you. ProLiant is a brand of server computers that was originally developed and marketed by Compaq and currently marketed by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. All slot support 150W PCIe cards. The DL380 is a 2U server while the DL360 is a 1U server. Reinsert the power supplies. HP Proliant ML110 POST fails with large (4GB) USB Disk attached. So the length of the servers between SFF and LFF are only 1 inch, on my chassis, there are screws marked for LFF nad SFF and from measuring the rail mounts seem to be identical. 2) Should be expandable to 1Tb of RAM at least. 2 did make the non-HP warning go away, but not the fan speed issue. Well, after all that research I mentioned at the beginning of the post, I installed an IOCREST IO-PEX40152 inside of an HPE Proliant DL360p Gen8 to add NVMe capabilities to the server. Is there any big difference between DL360 and DL380? I mean, besides being a 1U/2U Noise-wise, how loud is the noise from them? So I don't plan to get a special cold room to set it up, maybe I'll just place it in the basement, which should be colder but I usually keep it around 68-70F We bought a DL360 Gen8, and fitted it with 2x900GB drives and 36GB of HP memory. Unfortunately it does not really show up it the Bios. 6 GHz, 145 W), 8x8 GB DDR4-2133, RHEL 6. It does not show up in the raw Bios settings but I do see an "unknown" device in PCI-E Slot1 the ILO Device Inventory. I'm evaluating two kind of solutions: First one: Three DL380 G7 or G8 + one P2000 G3 + vSphere Enterprise 5. Feb 16, 2019 #51. For the UEFI or UEFI optimized boot mode options, the boot mode choice is based on the expected OS and required boot features for the server hardware. Upto 2% Discount on Checkout . HP ProLiant DL385 G7Server. HP branded server drives, no problem. This post production SPP uses Smart Update Manager (SUM) as the deployment tool and contains updates for ProLiant Gen8 systems. This screen also confirms whether you are using UEFI Mode or Legacy BIOS for booting. Welcome to HPE's Interactive Servers Support and Certification Matrices for HPE Servers. A list of drivers included in the HPE Custom Image is available here. Hewlett-packard server user manual (75 pages) Server HP DL360 Reference And Troubleshooting Manual. However, I wouldn't do this on a production box. Hi there, I have a new DL360p Gen8, I found that the temperature on HD Controller is about 85C but the whole system status is normal. 40. HPE ProLiant DL320e Generation 8 (Gen8) v2. HPE 600GB 12G SAS 15 K rpm SFF (2. I don't know about the case of G8 drivers working for G7 since most of the hardware is different, but it was a key part in getting my G6 to run, by grabbing certain G7 drivers. Mar 7th, 2017 at 12:25 PM. 2 Processors, 12 Cores, 24 Threads. HP ProLiant DL servers no longer ship standard with a 12-foot NEMA 5-15P to C13 power cord that connects to 110V US wall outlets in a home or office. I was playing with my DL380p G8 today and noticed that the iLO was saying I was consuming 90W at idle. power supply nameplate rating of 700 watts as a guide, only 14 DL360 G5 servers could be installed in a rack designed to handle 10 kW of power. Option Part. GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 45. Slot 2: PCIe 3. As soon as I put disks and ram it hit 100/120 watts. Server HP DL360 Maintenance And Service Manual. Universal rails that have a height of 1U and. Tends to be the choice of larger consultant shops where long-term stability is the more important goal over cost. The Gen8 caddy is marginally. But fans weren't happy. $100 remote hands is better than an un-bootable server. Server HP ProLiant DL360p G8 Manual. 0”. 12G SAS Hot plug with SmartDrive Small Form Factor (SFF) (2. open the case and find the DIP switch with 10 switches, and flip switch 6 to off (left). DL560 G8 - 1090$, Can be picked up using public transit. Extract the Server 2019 ISO to your computer, open nLite and point to that ISO, at the storage controller part add the HP Storage Driver. 1. 0. 4) Should be made by HP – rack server HP Proliant family. 5 "bays into a FreeNas to serve as storage for Proxmox hosts. 3 from Primate Labs and kicked off the 64-bit benchmark tests. After additional testing, HP's SSD's don't perform any better. Caddies: Third party with LED IC Chip. Compare to DL380 Gen10, the biggest difference is that HPE ProLiant DL380 Gen10 Plus server is built on 3rd Generation Intel Xeon Scalable Processors. Option Part Number. 10. Sadly most threads were archived/locked by the time I got there, so I never got a chance to ask questions. I keep 20 spare fans on hand at my datacenter because of this. This is true. 5 and forward. HP ProLiant DL360p Gen8 server. Artificial. NOTE: HP ProLiant DL servers no longer ship standard with a 12-foot NEMA 5-15P to C13 power cord that connects to 110V US wall outlets in a home or office. Source of information were various. Start with the serial number of the server and find the model number. Power the server on. 5) Our budget is 50k. Better power management. Disabled—Configures the system BIOS to boot using INT10 legacy. When the battery/capacitor reaches full charge, the controller will re-enable caching. I assume that HPE also does not support Hyper-V 2016, which is a problem. shteii01. Cooling Fan Server HP Proliant DL360 G8 654752-001. 2 17 comments Best Add a Comment adamxp12 bluntlab. 2. Same for us with an HP DL380 G8. HPE ProLiant DL360p Gen8 Server: Access product support documents and manuals, software, download drivers by operating environment, and view product support videos. Chris S Chris S. vSphere complains about empty fan slot 6, whereas the iLO board doesn't report any issue. I need to get a 4-port 10 Gb NICs for a ProLiant DL380p Gen8 and a ProLiant DL380 Gen9. Done tinkering with the home rack. It's a nice little machine which does everything I need but it's just a little too loud and can be heard throughout most of the downstairs rooms. Also, my 360 g8 and 380 g8 both fire up without either riser in place. DL360 gen8 از نوع تک یونیت (1U) بوده و از لحاظ ارتفاع ، باریک تر از DL380 که از نوع 2U میباشد ، طراحی شده است. 0 out of 5. The EVC mode depends on the processors. 4. Industry-specific functionalities will ensure higher efficiency. One-database-instance performance/watt results OPM/wattAs far as its hardware goes, the HP ProLiant DL360p Gen8 Server series is comprised of 1U, 2-socket configurations that feature a Smart Array P420i RAID controller with up to 2GB Flash Backed Write Cache (FBWC), up to two Intel E5-2600v2 or E5-2600 Series processors, two PCIe 3. I prefer flash backed write cache (versus battery backed). An upgrade to the iLO fixed the fan speed issue. Software and firmware are available as a service pack that you can download from the Hewlett. I wish HP had kept the same "common rail" system they had for most G4/5/6/7 systems. Please check the Document ID or your account permissions. HP ProLiant Gen8 Update to Support CPU E5-2600v2 E5-2400v2 E5-4600v2. PowerEdge R720 ( 128 GB RAM,Intel Xeon E5-2640v2 ) 2. 10,000,000 تومان – 36,500,000 تومان. An important factor for me, is price of course. Very stable as I have had them for 4 weeks now. Confidential computer software. Memory: 64GB DDR4 2,133MHz 1. If you want a r730/r730xd instead of a simular box from those 5 you can mostly expect to pay 2-3x as much. NOTE: All HPE ProLiant Generation 8 (Gen8 or G8) server models use HPE supplied and certified memory components that are ROHS-compliant. Also, my 360 g8 and 380 g8 both fire up without either riser in place. One-database-instance performance/watt results OPM/wattAs far as its hardware goes, the HP ProLiant DL360p Gen8 Server series is comprised of 1U, 2-socket configurations that feature a Smart Array P420i RAID controller with up to 2GB Flash Backed Write Cache (FBWC), up to two Intel E5-2600v2 or E5-2600 Series processors, two PCIe 3. 0. Spice (1) flag Report. 0 for the G8 box. I have a HP DL380p G8 with all supported HP hardware installed, this includes 2 300gb SAS HDDs, 1 1. May 24, 2017. Aside from that, while there isn't that much space to work with, @richard. Spare Part. Higher OPM/watt numbers are better. [1] HP ProLiant systems led the x86 server market in terms of units and revenue during. Compare software prices, features, support, ease of use, and user reviews to make the best choice between these, and decide whether HPE ProLiant DL325 Gen10 server or HPE Proliant DL360 Gen10. Flashing the DL360p to 7. In order to enter the Advanced system options menu for modifying a G6 or newer HP ProLiant for a low-latency application, you need to get to the main BIOS screen by pressing F9 during POST. power off the machine, unplug all PSUs. . Jakarta Pusat AceStarindo. Form Factor : 1U Rack Server. The server has integrated P420i controller, which is known for running hot. Hey, I was about to pull the trigger on buying 8x MX500's for my DL380 G8. اما سرور و قطعات سخت افزار سایر مدلها نیز توسط رسام سرور به فروش میرسد. 2 x E5-2640's Between 128-384GB memory on some units (HP's. 5U1. You can also reset the system settings using the proper jumper sequence. If you’re using usb or flash, I believe you need at least 8GB. 4x Intel Xeon E5-4620 2. 1. 9GB,RAID 1+0 -OK. top. Very likely that onboard SATA+Power port avaliable in 360p 4xLFF. DL380 Gen10 Server. As a business owner, you’re looking for servers that are small but mighty — and both Dell PowerEdge R630 and HP ProLiant DL360 Gen9 fit that bill.